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是否重建??
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拙时 发表于01-09-25 07:18
September 23, 2001, New York Times


To Rebuild or Not:

Architects Respond




‘‘Of course one has to rebuild, bigger and better. There should be offices and a mix of activities, both cultural and business. Yes, there should be a place to mourn, but that shouldn’t be the main thing. It must be a place looking into the future, not the past.’’
Bernard Tschumi, dean of the Columbia architecture school

‘‘We must rebuild the towers. They are a symbol of our achievement as New Yorkers and as Americans and to put them back says that we cannot be defeated. The skyscraper is our greatest achievement architecturally speaking, and we must have a new, skyscraping World Trade Center.’’
Robert A.M. Stern

‘‘What’s most poignant now is that the identity of the skyline has been lost. We would say, Let’s not build something that would mend the skyline, it is more powerful to leave it void. We believe it would be tragic to erase the erasure.’’
Elizabeth Diller and Ricardo Scofidio

‘‘Whatever they take down, we’ll rebuild. I think we should provide the same amount of office space, that it’s the least we can do.’’
Philip Johnson

‘‘Something else has come out of this, and that is how much ownership people outside of New York feel about our city. Maybe it’s not just our decision. Maybe we should let the American people vote on it.’’
Ralph Appelbaum

‘‘Whatever we do in the future has got to reflect the sense that the West, its culture and values have been attacked. I would hope that we would not be deterred from going as high as the old towers were. We should not move back from that point. We cannot retreat.’’
Peter Eisenman

‘‘Once we get over the grieving, we should realize that this could be a defeat, or it could be like Chicago after the fire, in 1871, when they invented the skyscraper and changed the ways cities have grown all over the world. We should build an even greater and more innovative skyscraper.’’
Terrence Riley, architecture curator, Museum of Modern Art

‘‘It should be rebuilt. We need office space, though we don’t want to build the same towers — they were designed in 1966 and now we live in 2001. What has to be there is an ensemble of buildings that are as powerful a symbol of New York as the World Trade towers were. The life of the city depends on people
living and working in the city and loving it — we want people there. We want them in a place that can be magnificent.’’
Richard Meier

 


-------------------------------------------------------------

Porposal for the Immediate Reconstruction of Manhattan's Skyline
By Gustavo Bonevardi and John Bennett

Filling the Void
A Memorial by Paul Myoda and Julian Laverdiere

Defending Skyscrapers Against Terror
By Kenneth Chang

 



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回应人: yn_sg 发表日期: 2001-09-23 18:57:48

你觉得呢?
我觉得应该建一个其他样子的!!
比如..................
 

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回应人: wgda98 发表日期: 2001-09-23 19:51:10

迈耶都说了,炸掉的双塔是66年建的,现在是2001年,当然要和原来的不同
不知道迈耶心目中2001年的建筑是什么样子的

补充日期: 2001-09-23 19:54:34

似乎大多数建树师都要求重建一个世贸中心

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回应人: 西乞园园 发表日期: 2001-09-24 00:32:01

我也要看到重建的
可是,我觉得外表和内部尽量不要改动比较好液。。。。。。
你站在河的左岸,目光指着我们的未来。


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回应人: godard@elong 发表日期: 2001-09-24 03:24:40

已经失败了,不改不行的
 
我觉得什么都不要建了,就空在那儿,让人想
 
现代文明的失败,人类的失败
 
一个虚的建筑,作为一个被毁灭了的现代文明的纪念碑

补充日期: 2001-09-24 03:29:11

迪勒说得多好:

‘‘What’s most poignant now is that the identity of the skyline has been lost. We would say, Let’s not build something that would mend the skyline, it is more powerful to leave it void. We believe it would be tragic to erase the erasure.’’
Elizabeth Diller and Ricardo Scofidio

……抹掉这些“抹掉了的”将是悲剧。

保留这个人类灾难的痕迹吧


补充日期: 2001-09-24 03:30:38

一个“不在的”建筑物

补充日期: 2001-09-24 03:33:51

September 23, 2001, New York Times


Filling the Void

A Memorial by PAUL MYODA and JULIAN LAVERDIERE




Left, A photo collage of "Phantom Towers", a contemporary monument made of light; Right, a drawing of the same project. Phantom towers conceived by Paul Myoda and Julian LaVerdiere. Original photograph by Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times. Digital manipulation by The New York Times.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Like people everywhere, artists Paul Myoda and Julian LaVerdiere responded to the attack by
anxiously calling around to friends, lining up to give blood, trying to figure out what to do, how to help. They spent the day looking up at a once familiar skyline and seeing something disorientingly blank. And that’s how they realized that they were in position to do something that few others could do. They knew those buildings; they had spent six months actually working there, out of an unusual art studio on the 91st floor of the north tower, putting together a light sculpture that was to have been installed next year on the
radio antenna on top. In planning this work of art, which had been commissioned by the group Creative
Time, they had studied the towers, viewed them from all over the city, immersed themselves in the culture of the place. They went to happy hour at Windows on the World; they walked down from the 91st floor, just to see how long it would take (about 45 minutes).

So in the aftermath of the explosions, the two artists conceived a new art project called ‘‘Phantom Towers,’’ pictured on the cover of this magazine. They imagined two powerful beams rising from a reflecting pool, refilling the void left by the twin towers with incandescence. ‘‘It’s an emotional response more than anything,’’ says LaVerdiere. ‘‘Those towers are like ghost limbs, we can feel them even though they’re not there anymore. Not being doctors or licensed crane operators, we realized that the best thing
we can do to help is an artistic gesture that might offer consolation or a sense of security or hope.’’

The artists intend this as an ephemeral monument, occupying the hole in the skyline until rebuilding can get under way. ‘‘It is an irony, a kind of painful irony, that we looked at the towers the same way the terrorists apparently looked at them, as a symbol of communications, strength, power,’’ says Myoda. ‘‘I fully want office buildings to be there again. Not a graveyard or a rose garden or a piece of art. There should be big buildings. It ought to be the way it was again.’’

 


补充日期: 2001-09-24 03:35:02


Porposal for the Immediate Reconstruction
of Manhattan's Skyline


Gustavo Bonevardi and John Bennett



A month after their destruction, 80 high intensity laser lights recreate the silhouettes of WTC towers 1 & 2 in a defiant declaration of New York's resiliency.

This is not a memorial. Visible from a distance, these symbols would inspire us and show the world that our city's spirit is unbroken. Requiring minimal recourses, this project will not interfere, or detract from, the urgent work of rescue and reconstruction.

TIMING
The sooner these lights shine, the more powerful their impact will be. They could be operational within a month. They are not meant as a permanent installation, but rather an immediate response.

LOCATION
The site of these towers will be defined in consultation with government agencies. Possible locations include Battery Park, Battery Park City and on barges in New York Harbor. Similar beacons could be constructed in cities across America.

CHARITY AFFILIATION
This project could be developed in conjunction with a related charity such as the September 11th Fund or the Twin Towers Fund and serve as its symbol.

FINANCING
Professional services and hardware would be donated. We are seeking a corporate sponsor to cover any remaining cost.

GOVERNMENT PARTNER
We are seeking a city agency to be partner and assist with coordination and approvals.

 


补充日期: 2001-09-24 03:36:07

September 18, 2001, New York Times


Defending Skyscrapers Against Terror


By Kenneth Chang

No one designs a skyscraper to withstand the direct hit of a fully fueled 767, and construction engineers agree that such an attack would have doomed almost any high-rise.

Each World Trade Center tower absorbed the impact of a jet with a shudder, as each was designed to do, and stood.

Inside, though, 2,000-degree infernos started burning, fed by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

It then became a question of time. Would the fuel burn up first or would the steel columns weaken and buckle under the heat?

For the people on floors above the crash site, there was another critical factor: an ordinary fire would take two or three hours to burn through the gypsum wallboard around the stairwells — but projectiles of plane wreckage almost certainly pierced through, letting in the fire and smoke. That trapped people on the upper floors.

The south tower collapsed 56 minutes after impact. The north tower lasted an hour and 40 minutes.

Someone probably could build a fortress skyscraper. "Given enough money, we can design anything," said Dr. Charles H. Thornton, chairman of the Thornton-Tomasetti Group Inc. of New York City, the structural engineering firm that worked on the 1,483-foot-tall Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

But no one would pay to build one, and no one would want to work there. Such a building would probably have the aesthetic appeal of a containment vessel of a nuclear power plant, which is designed to survive the crash of a falling 747.

In the decades since the World Trade Center was built, however, new materials and building techniques — some used on the more recent super skyscrapers like the Petronas Towers — may have given people more time to escape.

The key would have been slowing the fires. The sprinkler systems offered little help.

Even if the pipes survived the impact, the sprinklers of a typical skyscraper put out a few hundred gallons of water a minute for half an hour, Dr. Thornton said, and water would have been useless against a fuel fire in any case. (Water and oil don't mix; droplets of water sink into the fuel, turn into hot steam and explode, and the fuel continues burning.)

By contrast, an anti-fire system at an aircraft hangar can unleash a deluge of 120,000 gallons a minute of water and foam — which sticks to burning fuel — for two hours straight, Dr. Thornton said.

Since extinguishing the fire is impossible, "You have to build a more rugged building," said Dr. R. Brady Williamson, an emeritus professor of civil engineering at the University of California at Berkeley.

The main ingredients of any skyscraper are steel and concrete. Both are strong, but in different ways. Concrete bears more weight; steel can bend without breaking. The World Trade Center's supporting columns were made of steel, and the intense heat would have caused the girders to expand, distorting their shape and sapping their strength, leading to the collapse.

"It's better to build in reinforced concrete," said Dr. Mir M. Ali, a professor of architecture at the University of Illinois. "If there is an impact, crash or explosion, it can absorb the energy better. That makes the building less vulnerable."

But reinforced concrete — concrete with steel bars inside — is heavier. When the World Trade Center was built in the early 1970's, concrete was not a viable option because it would have required huge, unwieldy pillars to support the towers' weight. But high-strength concrete developed in recent years has made it more practical.

"The trend is toward more concrete," Dr. Mir said. "The technology has substantially improved. An all-concrete structure would have lasted longer."

Each of the two Petronas Towers has an outer ring of 16 seven-foot- wide columns made of concrete and at the center of each tower is a 75- foot by 75-foot concrete core — almost a building within a building — that houses the stairwells and elevator shafts.

Concrete — a mix of cement, sand and gravel — is not impervious to heat. The cement expands at a different rate than the sand and gravel, causing cracks. Under intense heat, some types of concrete can flake apart at about three-quarters of an inch an hour, eventually exposing the steel inside.

"It ultimately would lose its strength," Dr. Thornton said.

The concrete core of the Petronas Towers may have remained intact under a similar crash and provided a better escape route than the gypsum- walled stairwells of the World Trade Center.

"In our buildings, most of the stairways are in the core, which is a very safe haven," Dr. Thornton said. The cores of the Petronas Towers are also pressurized to keep smoke and fire out of the stairwells.

In addition to building more fire- resistant structures, another protection against crashing airplanes would be to keep the jet fuel from entering the interior of the building.

At the University of California at Berkeley, Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh- Asl, a professor of structural engineering, has been developing a new construction technique — bolting half-inch steel plates to six-inch concrete walls — to create buildings that can better survive earthquakes. "The concrete wall prevents the steel from buckling," Dr. Astaneh- Asl said. "The steel prevents the concrete from cracking and shattering. When you marry them, they become very good."

In tests, a half-scale, three-story building proved capable of surviving four magnitude-9 earthquakes. While the wreckage of the 767's flew into the interior of the World Trade Center, the extra mass of concrete and steel walls would have absorbed much of the planes' momentum.

"Most of the fracturing of the plane will take place outside of the building, not inside," Dr. Astaneh-Asl said. That is the same fundamental physics that make the S.U.V. the lesser damaged in a collision with a motorcycle.

Much of the fuel would have then splashed against the outside of the building instead of igniting inside, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said.

The World Trade Center attack may lead developers to regard a terrorist attack as a risk to be planned for instead of an unthinkable one-time tragedy.

"The perception of the terrorist threat is where earthquake hazards were in the mid- to late 1960's," said Dr. Jeremy Isenberg, president and chief at Weidlinger Associates, a consulting firm that once helped design resilient military bases and missile silos, and now offers its expertise for federal and commercial buildings. "It took a series of three or four damaging earthquakes to drive home to owners of buildings that they had financial assets at risk."

Developers may now request that more resilience be built into new buildings and into old ones being remodeled, Dr. Isenberg said.

While perhaps not much can protect against kamikaze jetliners, other simple steps may help protect against lesser attacks. Large, heavy cement flower pots, like those placed around the World Trade Center after the 1993 bombing, keep a car bomb a safe distance from the structural columns. Concrete walls around loading docks and mail rooms can be thickened to protect against bomb blasts. Jackets of graphite fibers wrapped around columns make them less likely to collapse. Protective glaze can be added to windows to make them less likely to shatter.

In planning for new buildings, structural designers are now more likely to add more redundancy where the collapse of one column does not lead to the collapse of the entire building, as occurred in the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

Dr. Thornton of Thornton-Tomasetti said that in one sense, taller buildings are safer than midrise buildings; taller buildings are less likely to topple, because their builders generally provided more redundancy into the structures. The design of skyscrapers 50 stories or more, has been "generally very robust," said Dr. Thornton. "For 40 or less, it's not."

But the taller buildings make a more tempting target for terrorists.

 



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回应人: yn_sg 发表日期: 2001-09-24 18:51:57

还有其他的方式呀
比如两个录音话筒
纪录全时段的自由发言
和文明声响

-------------------------------------------------------------

回应人: godard@elong 发表日期: 2001-09-24 19:24:09

哦,当然应该有具体的保留方案,但是前提应该是不要盖房子
 
我也设想过播放声音,比如把迪勒的那个“现代巴比伦塔”直接用上:很多嘴同时在讲很多种语言……不过我觉得任何一种技术性的处理都会减弱这个“空的”的力量
 
保留这个大灾难的痕迹是最重要的
 
中东今天跟我谈起这个:不断地抹去灾难的痕迹这本身就是人类的悲剧

补充日期: 2001-09-24 19:40:40

操,先锋建筑师和一般建筑师的差别真是太大了
 
你看迈耶在说些什么呀?“应该重建,因为我们需要办公空间……”
 
这样的建筑师真是没救了,在这样的大灾难面前还在想风格啊样式啊这些毫无意义的事情,完全没有文化反思的能力和习惯,他只能当专家了
 
迪勒说得多好
 
这就是作为知识分子的建筑师和作为现代社会中的专家的建筑师之间的巨大区别

补充日期: 2001-09-24 19:53:19

操,看完了迈耶的话,他没说风格样式,不过也差不多,他还在从设计的角度考虑问题

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回应人: rat in library 发表日期: 2001-09-25 07:08:38

伤心,伤心....我这的教授(参加具体施工)也是说要造楼....
 
建筑界的反思力度太小了....
 
 
 keeping yourself in the dark all year round 
对 纸.塑料 材料研究

补充日期: 2001-09-25 07:15:32

这些人感觉是在谈钢板,强度不够,抗冲击不够,火克金...要再化3个亿....
 
我倒是觉得应该立两根透明管子, 这管子内部可模拟自由下落,或充气悬浮,光柱放映,再用环境音乐,(或者完全没有声音的静)....
 
 
 


godard@elong 发表于01-09-25 11:472

在911之后设计建筑是残忍的

斜阳 发表于01-09-25 12:343

何必重建呢,留着当警示寓言不是更好,建一个现代文明与危机的主题公园,让人类更长久的反思。。。。。

 希腊哲学家麦格拉人斯蒂尔芬在一场大火中失掉了妻子、儿女和所有的 
 财产,他从废墟里站起来,说道:“我所有的财富都在身上了。” 
影像印象
拙时 发表于01-09-30 03:234


补充日期: 2001-10-13 01:40:22


一个超级大国的象征物已经夷为平地
 
★纽约来信  
□娜 斯

  世贸双塔其实并不是纽约人最喜爱的建筑,纽约人喜欢的是帝国大厦和
克莱斯勒大楼。世贸大厦建成时,纯粹追求高度的观念已经不流行了。对它
的评价总的来说并不是很好,倒是外国游客很喜欢它。
  可是双塔以这样令人震惊的方式毁灭,自然又引起人们对它的怀念。多
数人都不赞成重建两座高楼,他们比较倾向建一座纪念公园。也有人认为应
该重建。艺术家和建筑师基本持相反意见,两种意见代表美国现在的两种心
情,两种观念。
  华尔街离艺术家聚集的TriBeCa区不远,很多艺术家目睹了双塔
的倒塌,生活和工作也受到了影响。
  89岁的雕塑家路易斯.波杰瓦提笔设计了一个纪念碑草图,一座七层
高的石柱,顶上是一颗星,遇难者的姓名用手工分竖行凿刻。《纽约时报》
说,这是一颗似乎同时在上升和降落的星,让你同时感觉向前走和拉回来的
本能。“一方面像充气上升的星,一种摩天大楼向上的能量,可是它的周边
却像蜡烛上的蜡一样在熔化,让人想到那些从空中落下的灰尘和一座城市的
眼泪。”
  以下是其他一些艺术家和建筑师的观点。

  Barbara Kruger巴巴拉.克鲁格,艺术家
  我希望世贸原址成为一个公园,一个风景美丽的公园,一个露天梯型剧
场,需要一小块废墟。我知道这块地很有价值,有人迫不及待地建办公室。
但起码一部分应该建成公园。
  Richard Meier理查德.梅耶尔,建筑师
  原址不应该是公园。我们沿西路已经有一个很棒的新公园。一座公园对
在这里发生的事不是合适的象征。我们需要办公空间,我们需要新的建筑,
比以前在那里的建筑更能象征纽约。
  Shirin Neshat史林.奈沙特,艺术家
  在原址建楼绝对残酷。为了纪念生命的损失,你需要一定的空。如果你
修建新的建筑,就像你盖上悲剧然后忘记它。视觉上,我看到的是非常稀疏
和沉思性的东西,一个像公园一样的开放空间,每个死者的姓名都写在地上
。地面是石头,一个很大的圆形或方形,由鲜花环绕。
  James Turrell詹姆斯.图雷尔,雕塑家
  我觉得我们应该重建。我希望看到纽约的工作文化继续下去。人们希望
一个纪念碑,因为他们现在的情感需要。但情感会过去,所有的情感都会过
去,那时纪念碑就没有意义。新建筑应该比旧的还高,而且应有三座。我们
不应感到在废墟上做新的建筑有什么不好,所有文化都是在旧有文化上建筑
起来的。
  John Baldessari约翰.布莱德萨瑞,观念艺术家
  我认为什么也不应该建。原址应为公园。应该有两个长方形的草地,在
原来两座塔楼的位置,由树围绕,每棵树代表一个死者。地下,应该有阶梯
型剧场,24小时播放死者的照片。让原址成为办公地点的想法是疯狂的。
  Robert A.M. Stern罗伯特.A.M.斯特恩,耶鲁
建筑学院院长
  重建很重要,摩天大楼是美国的伟大发明之一,可能是美国对建筑最伟
大的贡献。
  Robert Rosenblum罗伯特.罗森布鲁姆,纽约大学艺
术史教授
  我觉得应该是一座鬼魂纪念碑,一座很高的建筑物,像原来的建筑但完
全是非实用的。一座幽灵建筑。我在想一个Jenny Holzer作品
式的东西,有幽灵的光,非物质性的东西,透明的,蛛网式的。或者我们只
要一堆废墟。
  Richard Gluckman理查德.格鲁克曼,建筑师
  我确实认为应该建成跟原来建筑相称的东西,但建筑外观应反映悲剧的
性质。我们应该做双塔21世纪的版本。可能用玻璃和电子媒体,两者的结
合。我愿意看到电子彩色玻璃,使外表可以改变颜色,从不透明到明澈,表
达不同的情感。
  Joel Shapiro J.夏皮罗,华盛顿美国犹太屠杀博物馆
外纪念建筑的雕塑设计师
  我认为将空间留白是最有效的纪念,就像柏林。柏林有些地方还没有重
建,那比你能建的任何愚蠢的纪念碑都有效,因为你有这种对于发生的事情
的真实的感觉。我们不需要纪念碑。看到一座纪念碑你不会想到任何东西。

路易斯.波杰瓦设计的纪念碑草图

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